In a discussion I had online concerning the doctrine of the Rapture and future Millennium with an Independent Baptist pastor, who is also a friend, he wrote: “To your next set of bullets, I will answer briefly. Yes, the church will give glory to Christ throughout all ages, world without end. But I wonder if you are assuming WHERE that will take place. It doesn’t say ‘on earth’ yet it sounds like you are adding that. The church will be in heaven giving glory throughout all ages once that rapture takes place. Under this point you also mention that you believe the Rapture is post-tribulational, if I grasp you correctly”.
In my reply, I wrote: “No, I don’t think you have grasped me correctly. In my theology there is no Rapture or Great Tribulation. The Rapture, as you call it, is what happens when Jesus returns – ONCE and for all. When Jesus comes back at this time, the dead in Christ arise and the living are taken up to meet him in the air, and that is the end. The wicked are judged and cast into hell and the righteous go to be with Christ forever”.
The pastor further stated following my interruption: “I would comment that after the Rapture, there will be hundreds of thousands saved, perhaps into the millions, during the Tribulation. The ones who survive the Antichrist’s persecution will be the sheep, the lost survivors of the Tribulation will be the goats – all described in Matthew 25:31ff. If your interpretation were right, how would you fit 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51ff into the dragnet/wheat and tares scenario? I conclude that they have to be describing two separate events. There’s just no way to combine them into one”.
Me: “As I said, there will be no Tribulation or Rapture so there is no such event that has to fit these two passages into the dragnet/wheat and tares scenario. The Rapture is simply the return of Jesus so it all happens together, as one event. And that event is the end of the world”.
The pastor: “That turning away from Israel came when He offered Himself to the Jews as King, and they rejected Him by saying, ‘Away with Him! Crucify Him!’ God turned to the ‘nation’ or Gentile churches (which we have over the centuries proved to primarily be. Jews are rarely seen in New Testament assemblies, are they?). This is all true. At the Rapture, however, that Gentile church is removed and taken to heaven for our Judgment Seat of Christ, where rewards will be distributed. Meanwhile on earth, the nation of Israel becomes the primary entity of God again, and the 70th week of Daniel occurs. By the end of it, the remaining nation of Israel is converted. Both the entity of Israel and the entity of the church have a role to play in the Millennium and in the eternal state afterward. This is seen in Revelation 21:12-14 where both Israel and the church are represented”.
Me: “Does this mean that there will be no Jews in the Church, seeing the nation of Israel is there and alongside the Church as a separate entity? If there are saved Jews in the Church during the Millennium, will they be transferred across to Israel so that there are only Gentiles in the Church and only physical or national Jews in national Israel? Why would there even be a Church in the Millennium when the Church has already been raptured? And what does this ‘millennial’ Church do with regard to the Millennial Temple and the sacrificial system? Do they have separate worship places to Israel, and different ways of doing worship? Why should the Church be involved with a Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system in a Millennial Temple anyway? Your description of the Millennium is very confusing. It seems that both Israel and the Church have to do it all over again in the Millennium.
In the current “church age” Pre-Millennial Israel is rejected and the Church is born and becomes the new people of God (according to you). But during this period, you say, Jews can still be saved by faith in Christ and the gospel. They therefore become part of the Church and become one body, and all remember Christ’s sacrifice and atonement together as they take the bread and the wine of the Lord’s Supper, you rightly say (Eph 2:11-22.)
But then the Church, which consists of saved Gentiles and saved Jews, is raptured away, and all unbelievers are left behind, according to your theology. But through the Tribulation, Jews and Gentiles who were left behind have a second chance to put their faith in Jesus….or whatever. But I don’t know what it is that you say they’re meant to put their trust in – is it in the gospel of Jesus slain for sinners?….or do they look forward to a thousand year reign of Christ centred in Jerusalem on earth, and with a new temple and restored sacrificial system with Levitical priesthood, all of which is identical to the Old Covenant?
If it is in Christ’s atonement, why was the previous Church raptured away? Why didn’t Jesus just leave them on earth? What was the point of taking the Church away only to start another Church from scratch all over again during the Millennium?
And why is Israel restored to its former law and sacrifice obedience and way of atonement and worship, as if nothing had happened in between the OT and the Millennium? Why do they have to have their Old Covenant system with Christ ruling over it, when the Church is there as well, trusting the gospel…?
If what you say is true, Jesus presides over an incomplete salvation for the Jews and a perfect salvation for the Church at the same time….? When does Israel get the chance to be free of animal sacrifices, in which God takes no pleasure (Heb 10:8)? The whole of Heb chapters 8-10 speaks of the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old, of the superiority of the priesthood of Christ over the Levitical priesthood, of the superiority of Christ’s sacrifice over that of animals; and that Christ’s perfect sacrifice was once and forever. Why is it shunted aside in the Millennium, and Israel left to obey the law, when Peter in the NT said this was a burden which was too heavy for the Jews to bear (Acts 15:10)? It seems to me, if I’ve understood you correctly, Premillennialism with its focus on Israel is beset with insurmountable problems”.